Hi everyone, I'm Ross Cupid, first-year student of Master of Science in Psychology and School Community. Currently I am in Lisbon, where, unfortunately, is about to end my Erasmus period.
few months ago, after she ISPA (Institute of Applied Psychology), I thought it important to know the real and current situation of Psychology Comunitàin Portugal, hence the idea to request an interview with Prof. José HP Ornelas, president of C. d. L. Master and Doctoral Program in Community Psychology ISPA, as well as the first president of the European Communities of psychology already. I think this interview may be useful to the students of C. d. L. in the Science of Behavior and Social Relations, which will have to choose which path to take, and (above all) to my colleagues in school psychology and community, as it gives a broad perspective on this branch of psychology at the European level.
I hope you enjoy reading!
few months ago, after she ISPA (Institute of Applied Psychology), I thought it important to know the real and current situation of Psychology Comunitàin Portugal, hence the idea to request an interview with Prof. José HP Ornelas, president of C. d. L. Master and Doctoral Program in Community Psychology ISPA, as well as the first president of the European Communities of psychology already. I think this interview may be useful to the students of C. d. L. in the Science of Behavior and Social Relations, which will have to choose which path to take, and (above all) to my colleagues in school psychology and community, as it gives a broad perspective on this branch of psychology at the European level.
I hope you enjoy reading!
To begin with, I know she is a professor here ISPA (Institudo Superior de Aplicada Psychology), director of the Master Degree and Graduate Program in Community Psychology, Director's degree in Community Development and Mental Health, and above all, know who was President of the European Association of Psychology Community. I think it is very interesting and important for students in this area of \u200b\u200bpsychology to know how you can reach this professional level: Can you tell us what was your path? What are the most important steps?
Therefore, we ISPA began our work here in 1987, with two locations: one at an academic level - with a single course in this University-and the other, very important, in terms of action we wanted to create a nongovernmental organization (NGO) to intervene outside. This level of intervention was very important to involve other people, to strengthen the field of study and to meld the academic side, since the Community Psychology, as you know, has a dimension not only academic but also action in the sense of territory, of social change ...
So as to its origins to Community Psychology-who was born in United States in 1965 - was applied to the area of \u200b\u200bmental health, mental health change, the transformation of psychiatric hospitals, the transition to the community and later is very diverse, even here, in 1987, NGOs have dedicated to the same area of \u200b\u200bthe change in mental health in terms of various changes: we have created different structures within the community for people who came from hospitals, which were beginning to integrate, find work. We started by giving them a home, assistance and many of our students here have done their internship within these NGOs, and later, other areas have been developed and have been consolidated in academic: for example, even in women has created an NGO, women's organizations against violence, and other fields of action, more recently they have another kind in the area of \u200b\u200bprevention of sexual abuse of children, and have been growing in parallel with other areas ... So it was that was born the Department of Community Psychology, following the Master and is currently also a Ph.D., also in Community Psychology [...].
Returning to his initial question, before he became president, had created an informal network: just a group of people interested in Community Psychology. Then we started to gather inclusive: every two years did a congress, and this was before the creation of the Association. We did a conference in Rome in '95, then in '98 we did here-we have the poster with the dates of various conferences in Berlin, then ... It was a very interesting process, a good idea: an informal network of people who had not yet an organizational structure ... Knowing each other so we went up to create the association, and then to Naples in Naples was the first meeting, when there were elections for the association, me, since I was in the network from the beginning, I had worked for the network since the beginning, I'm running-c 'was another candidate, and won the election ... to Naples: I am very glad it happened because in Naples before discovering the Community Psychology, I found the Community Psychology in 1980, the United States, where I did my PhD in '76-(... Wow, I'm already past 30 years! ... you say in the last century, was the nineteenth century! [laughter]), from 1976 to 1980 I was in Italy many times to follow the movement of the Italian Democratic Psychiatry, a Basaglia ... I said that before discovering the Community Psychology in the United States, I found the movement of the Democratic Psychiatry in Italy so I am very pleased to have been elected in Naples ... in Naples or anywhere else in Italy: It was very important knowledge gained from the Democratic Psychiatry.
Thereafter, Community Psychology has gone much beyond the Democratic Psychiatry, who has not discovered
everything has been little investigated. But his contribution was very important because it made us take our work here-here in Portugal, in terms of integration: not only have closed hospitals, but we have also integrated
people in the community [...].
Very interesting ... So in your experience, I think we have an overview of community psychology at the European level and, more particularly, in Portugal: what is the situation? Investigation and intervention are highly developed these days?
Yes, in Portugal we have historically always what I call a perspective atlantistica. Portugal is not on the Mediterranean, but the Atlantic, so much so that when I meet immigrants from the east, Russia, dall'Ucrania etc, and I ask them "How did you come to Portugal?" I often meet them " Why is the end ... I could not go beyond !".[...]
To answer your question, I was always very interested in this link: here we have the School of Community Psychology, a school Atlanticist, ie a school liaison between Portugal and North America: are Many of our students going for a long time in the U.S. ... We also have many Erasmus, Europe concerns us, but we especially many protocols, many strong ties with the United States, for which our Community Psychology is highly systematized, in both research and the question of social change, not change only as a social movement, political, general and abstract ... I try to explain: in Europe there are more of my colleagues who are critical, ideological generalists: they speak of the state, critique of psychology. But how is it that it puts an end to serious situations, as it puts an end to mental hospitals, domestic violence, sexual abuse on children, violence against women in general, how you change the role of man in society, the relationship between man and woman, how did you change in the social system in practice? This is what we demand an Atlanticist, and what we demand in Canada, the United States ... In Europe there is this perspective, then there exists a critical perspective of psychology, social critique, and there are other movements linked those of Latin America, to which we are very critical ...[...]
An 'another thing that characterizes the psychology of community here-this is also interesting is that this-Community Psychology is a psychology Community of "democratic". What does this mean? We believe-and this is another thing-Atlanticist we firmly believe in democracy: democracy for us, European, Western, has in itself all that is required because the Community Psychology can do all the various changes. There are other schools who do not believe in this democracy and want to make a revolution. What we want to do here is to transform and deepen democracy: democracy allows us to do all that we intend to do:
there is no ideal of community psychology that is not feasible in the context of EU democracy. This is another difference Community Psychology between democratic and non democratic, such as a Community Psychology revolutionary "marxizzante" that we criticize. We are a team of psychologists to community critics of the Marxist model. We are critical, very critical, because we believe in democracy, believe in a democratic system
, we do not believe in a social revolution, as in Latin America. Is seeing the difference between being a Latin America or be Atlanticist, revolutionaries, political ...? As co-exist? It is very difficult, but this is the other
thing for which I am happy to have been elected to Naples, because the other candidate was the other perspective ... I 'm running e. .. I won! [Laughter]
an example of what I mean: you may know that next week there will be a World Conference on Community Psychology, Puebla, Mexico. My contribution will be exactly how we make social change here. I chose the theme "Social Change: How to achieve it" will the example of the homeless and will also speak of how you can place in the world of work people with mental disorders, giving them jobs
competitive, unlike the Italian cooperatives. .. I am critical, I do not like unions because they are not NTEGRA in a natural system. Is seeing the connection, the contribution of Psychology Community for Democratic Psychiatry?
do not know if I'm answering your question ... Portugal suffers from very large influence on the part of
North America, because the foundations of Community Psychology have been placed in the United States in 1965, in Swampscott Conference. Just as psychoanalysis was born in Vienna, Austria, in the late nineteenth century, the Community Psychology was born there. There are many Europeans who want to impose the origin of Community Psychology in Europe, but they do not want to follow the change: the New World is now, Europe is the last century.
I have no trouble accepting this, therefore, about what that said, the global vision of Community Psychology, which is why I told her that the situation is very diverse. I am clearly an Atlanticist: the project of investigation we're doing with the homeless is in collaboration with our Canadian colleagues, Montreal and Ottawa: therefore, we are studying this phenomenon in North America. Portugal is a bridge between North America and Europe, is the front door of the great innovative ideas, but not an uncritical and passive transition, we are partners, there is a critical exchange with each other. They too are to take from us our ideas. For example, the program "Little House on First" was born in North America, but we have the innovative elements in several respects: they put the homeless in large apartments and rented three houses in the same building
, but we do not do so, we place each person placed in different homes in different parts of city. The second difference is that they have a multidisciplinary team with psychiatrists and other professionals working in
the homeless, we do not have this, we put people to serve the community, we're innovators, we are not just a port passive.
back to some concepts I mentioned earlier, what do you think are the main differences between the Community Psychology in Portugal and the in Italy?
Well, there are many differences even in Italy, very different. If the question was: "What is the difference between here and the Community Psychology Community Psychology Critical-current European Union-which also exists in Italy?", The answer would be that the Critical Community Psychology is dedicated to the very critical of the system Name: for example, instead of removing people from the street, as we are doing, is able to make a speech about an hour browsing and Capitalism that made those people miserable living on the streets, that the social and political system does not address thoroughly the problem of the wretched street etc ... We do not make these speeches: we do a program, we remove 50 people from the street and show that this is better. We influence the leaders democratically elected and we get what we call "change public policy, namely: scientifically proven through an assessment that the program works, which is better, and turn them into public policy.
To summarize, this is the difference between our Community Psychology ISPA here and some other different currents, the difference lies here: we work hard to find items of social change [...]: not make a social revolution, but we remove the homeless from the street ... And when the critics do not believe in psychology democratic system and goes to give money to people to get them out of the way, we show that this does not work: we have received € 500,000 to remove 50 people from the street! Western democracy has all the potential in its democratic constitutional order for us to turn around. Portugal decided yesterday, the eighth country in the world, that people of any sexual orientation can marry. Who would have thought? Only a democratic system in a country that was fascist until twenty-odd years ago, a totally Catholic country ... only democracy could ensure that gay people can marry yesterday. Is seeing? What can I say, democracy allows extraordinary things ...
... You just a matter of working practice, we say "roll up their sleeves ...
Yes, but this is not enough: you have good ideas. Here we teach our students to learn to think in order to have a constructive dialogue, so that the University is a place of idealism, which explore innovative ideas such as that of the homeless, "The House first," a brilliant idea ! Using globalization as a means to find good ideas, not rejecting it as a bad thing, only linked with the economy: there are good things that we can use.
So we do not just pull up our sleeves, but have good ideas to influence and change public policy: we have a great power! We can not stay in government, but we have more of a great power for social change, although very often you do not have this perception. If you currently present a proposal to the rulers, they must immediately, they're here or who are at the EU level, they should consult experts to assess the quality of the program. This is a new thing, that community psychology can and should use ...
In light of this, then, can you tell us what is your prediction for the future of the sport in Portugal and in Europe more generally? That is, things for the future of community psychologists will be better or worse? Here in Portugal
improve Of course not! For example, in October we will have a national meeting: will be the first national meeting of all the people who work in the field of Community Psychology ... you already have in Italy and do it every two years, but we were not still doing it, therefore, to September ISPA in the journal "Psychological" there will be a whole number, dedicated only to Community Psychology.
... Europe ... In Europe things are always continuing to grow: there was the last conference in Paris last October ... Paris, the city of Psychoanalysis, the site of a conference on Community Psychology, and also very well done! The next will be in 2011 in York, England; I know that others are opening new departments in other countries, including EU: Romania has a new department, the Czech Republic also, will this global meeting in Puebla-two years ago was in Lisbon, the first year is been to Puerto Rico ... Consequently, this helps the growth of Community Psychology in Europe: a lot of people are going to attend these meetings ...
And in terms of research, what is the situation here ISPA? You can work in this field?
Yes, from now on he will research more and more we now have a Ph.D., we have two areas available for PhD-to-last January and this is spectacular, is the second specialization with more students here ISPA, after the Clinical Psychology. Henceforth, the search will become more systematized, because people will start to do, in addition to the thesis, even a doctorate.
Even at political level and be our research is much appreciated: we got here, for the first time, that 1% of GDP ... not much, but the first was 0.2% ... 1% only for research: it is extraordinary that a country has a
pay only 1% of GDP for research, scholarships, PhD ...
Very interesting! ... Now, to end, wants to give advice to future community psychology? Then
: study hard in theory, knowing the theoretical ideas of the main founders of Community Psychology (the ecological perspective is essential, a major innovation the ecological perspective, that makes psychology a psychology independent, autonomous thinking ecologically ...) ; aim at the revolutionary transformation, not criticism, not in abstract terms, not surrender to Critical Psychology, but to develop the psychology of change processor (I am a critic of Critical Psychology [laughter] ... maybe because when I was young I was too ' I am a psychologist, critic, criticism and moved to the company ... not today, today I am a scientist first attack all the processing ... in general, not now).
The spirit that I propose to adopt is: "Tell me what's the problem: we do a conference by the way, we design a program and social transformation. In any area ... AIDS in young people, prevention of intimate partner violence o. .. anything!
Very good! Thank you very much for your availability, and for your time, thank you!
Therefore, we ISPA began our work here in 1987, with two locations: one at an academic level - with a single course in this University-and the other, very important, in terms of action we wanted to create a nongovernmental organization (NGO) to intervene outside. This level of intervention was very important to involve other people, to strengthen the field of study and to meld the academic side, since the Community Psychology, as you know, has a dimension not only academic but also action in the sense of territory, of social change ...
So as to its origins to Community Psychology-who was born in United States in 1965 - was applied to the area of \u200b\u200bmental health, mental health change, the transformation of psychiatric hospitals, the transition to the community and later is very diverse, even here, in 1987, NGOs have dedicated to the same area of \u200b\u200bthe change in mental health in terms of various changes: we have created different structures within the community for people who came from hospitals, which were beginning to integrate, find work. We started by giving them a home, assistance and many of our students here have done their internship within these NGOs, and later, other areas have been developed and have been consolidated in academic: for example, even in women has created an NGO, women's organizations against violence, and other fields of action, more recently they have another kind in the area of \u200b\u200bprevention of sexual abuse of children, and have been growing in parallel with other areas ... So it was that was born the Department of Community Psychology, following the Master and is currently also a Ph.D., also in Community Psychology [...].
Returning to his initial question, before he became president, had created an informal network: just a group of people interested in Community Psychology. Then we started to gather inclusive: every two years did a congress, and this was before the creation of the Association. We did a conference in Rome in '95, then in '98 we did here-we have the poster with the dates of various conferences in Berlin, then ... It was a very interesting process, a good idea: an informal network of people who had not yet an organizational structure ... Knowing each other so we went up to create the association, and then to Naples in Naples was the first meeting, when there were elections for the association, me, since I was in the network from the beginning, I had worked for the network since the beginning, I'm running-c 'was another candidate, and won the election ... to Naples: I am very glad it happened because in Naples before discovering the Community Psychology, I found the Community Psychology in 1980, the United States, where I did my PhD in '76-(... Wow, I'm already past 30 years! ... you say in the last century, was the nineteenth century! [laughter]), from 1976 to 1980 I was in Italy many times to follow the movement of the Italian Democratic Psychiatry, a Basaglia ... I said that before discovering the Community Psychology in the United States, I found the movement of the Democratic Psychiatry in Italy so I am very pleased to have been elected in Naples ... in Naples or anywhere else in Italy: It was very important knowledge gained from the Democratic Psychiatry.
Thereafter, Community Psychology has gone much beyond the Democratic Psychiatry, who has not discovered
everything has been little investigated. But his contribution was very important because it made us take our work here-here in Portugal, in terms of integration: not only have closed hospitals, but we have also integrated
people in the community [...].
Very interesting ... So in your experience, I think we have an overview of community psychology at the European level and, more particularly, in Portugal: what is the situation? Investigation and intervention are highly developed these days?
Yes, in Portugal we have historically always what I call a perspective atlantistica. Portugal is not on the Mediterranean, but the Atlantic, so much so that when I meet immigrants from the east, Russia, dall'Ucrania etc, and I ask them "How did you come to Portugal?" I often meet them " Why is the end ... I could not go beyond !".[...]
To answer your question, I was always very interested in this link: here we have the School of Community Psychology, a school Atlanticist, ie a school liaison between Portugal and North America: are Many of our students going for a long time in the U.S. ... We also have many Erasmus, Europe concerns us, but we especially many protocols, many strong ties with the United States, for which our Community Psychology is highly systematized, in both research and the question of social change, not change only as a social movement, political, general and abstract ... I try to explain: in Europe there are more of my colleagues who are critical, ideological generalists: they speak of the state, critique of psychology. But how is it that it puts an end to serious situations, as it puts an end to mental hospitals, domestic violence, sexual abuse on children, violence against women in general, how you change the role of man in society, the relationship between man and woman, how did you change in the social system in practice? This is what we demand an Atlanticist, and what we demand in Canada, the United States ... In Europe there is this perspective, then there exists a critical perspective of psychology, social critique, and there are other movements linked those of Latin America, to which we are very critical ...[...]
An 'another thing that characterizes the psychology of community here-this is also interesting is that this-Community Psychology is a psychology Community of "democratic". What does this mean? We believe-and this is another thing-Atlanticist we firmly believe in democracy: democracy for us, European, Western, has in itself all that is required because the Community Psychology can do all the various changes. There are other schools who do not believe in this democracy and want to make a revolution. What we want to do here is to transform and deepen democracy: democracy allows us to do all that we intend to do:
there is no ideal of community psychology that is not feasible in the context of EU democracy. This is another difference Community Psychology between democratic and non democratic, such as a Community Psychology revolutionary "marxizzante" that we criticize. We are a team of psychologists to community critics of the Marxist model. We are critical, very critical, because we believe in democracy, believe in a democratic system
, we do not believe in a social revolution, as in Latin America. Is seeing the difference between being a Latin America or be Atlanticist, revolutionaries, political ...? As co-exist? It is very difficult, but this is the other
thing for which I am happy to have been elected to Naples, because the other candidate was the other perspective ... I 'm running e. .. I won! [Laughter]
an example of what I mean: you may know that next week there will be a World Conference on Community Psychology, Puebla, Mexico. My contribution will be exactly how we make social change here. I chose the theme "Social Change: How to achieve it" will the example of the homeless and will also speak of how you can place in the world of work people with mental disorders, giving them jobs
competitive, unlike the Italian cooperatives. .. I am critical, I do not like unions because they are not NTEGRA in a natural system. Is seeing the connection, the contribution of Psychology Community for Democratic Psychiatry?
do not know if I'm answering your question ... Portugal suffers from very large influence on the part of
North America, because the foundations of Community Psychology have been placed in the United States in 1965, in Swampscott Conference. Just as psychoanalysis was born in Vienna, Austria, in the late nineteenth century, the Community Psychology was born there. There are many Europeans who want to impose the origin of Community Psychology in Europe, but they do not want to follow the change: the New World is now, Europe is the last century.
I have no trouble accepting this, therefore, about what that said, the global vision of Community Psychology, which is why I told her that the situation is very diverse. I am clearly an Atlanticist: the project of investigation we're doing with the homeless is in collaboration with our Canadian colleagues, Montreal and Ottawa: therefore, we are studying this phenomenon in North America. Portugal is a bridge between North America and Europe, is the front door of the great innovative ideas, but not an uncritical and passive transition, we are partners, there is a critical exchange with each other. They too are to take from us our ideas. For example, the program "Little House on First" was born in North America, but we have the innovative elements in several respects: they put the homeless in large apartments and rented three houses in the same building
, but we do not do so, we place each person placed in different homes in different parts of city. The second difference is that they have a multidisciplinary team with psychiatrists and other professionals working in
the homeless, we do not have this, we put people to serve the community, we're innovators, we are not just a port passive.
back to some concepts I mentioned earlier, what do you think are the main differences between the Community Psychology in Portugal and the in Italy?
Well, there are many differences even in Italy, very different. If the question was: "What is the difference between here and the Community Psychology Community Psychology Critical-current European Union-which also exists in Italy?", The answer would be that the Critical Community Psychology is dedicated to the very critical of the system Name: for example, instead of removing people from the street, as we are doing, is able to make a speech about an hour browsing and Capitalism that made those people miserable living on the streets, that the social and political system does not address thoroughly the problem of the wretched street etc ... We do not make these speeches: we do a program, we remove 50 people from the street and show that this is better. We influence the leaders democratically elected and we get what we call "change public policy, namely: scientifically proven through an assessment that the program works, which is better, and turn them into public policy.
To summarize, this is the difference between our Community Psychology ISPA here and some other different currents, the difference lies here: we work hard to find items of social change [...]: not make a social revolution, but we remove the homeless from the street ... And when the critics do not believe in psychology democratic system and goes to give money to people to get them out of the way, we show that this does not work: we have received € 500,000 to remove 50 people from the street! Western democracy has all the potential in its democratic constitutional order for us to turn around. Portugal decided yesterday, the eighth country in the world, that people of any sexual orientation can marry. Who would have thought? Only a democratic system in a country that was fascist until twenty-odd years ago, a totally Catholic country ... only democracy could ensure that gay people can marry yesterday. Is seeing? What can I say, democracy allows extraordinary things ...
... You just a matter of working practice, we say "roll up their sleeves ...
Yes, but this is not enough: you have good ideas. Here we teach our students to learn to think in order to have a constructive dialogue, so that the University is a place of idealism, which explore innovative ideas such as that of the homeless, "The House first," a brilliant idea ! Using globalization as a means to find good ideas, not rejecting it as a bad thing, only linked with the economy: there are good things that we can use.
So we do not just pull up our sleeves, but have good ideas to influence and change public policy: we have a great power! We can not stay in government, but we have more of a great power for social change, although very often you do not have this perception. If you currently present a proposal to the rulers, they must immediately, they're here or who are at the EU level, they should consult experts to assess the quality of the program. This is a new thing, that community psychology can and should use ...
In light of this, then, can you tell us what is your prediction for the future of the sport in Portugal and in Europe more generally? That is, things for the future of community psychologists will be better or worse? Here in Portugal
improve Of course not! For example, in October we will have a national meeting: will be the first national meeting of all the people who work in the field of Community Psychology ... you already have in Italy and do it every two years, but we were not still doing it, therefore, to September ISPA in the journal "Psychological" there will be a whole number, dedicated only to Community Psychology.
... Europe ... In Europe things are always continuing to grow: there was the last conference in Paris last October ... Paris, the city of Psychoanalysis, the site of a conference on Community Psychology, and also very well done! The next will be in 2011 in York, England; I know that others are opening new departments in other countries, including EU: Romania has a new department, the Czech Republic also, will this global meeting in Puebla-two years ago was in Lisbon, the first year is been to Puerto Rico ... Consequently, this helps the growth of Community Psychology in Europe: a lot of people are going to attend these meetings ...
And in terms of research, what is the situation here ISPA? You can work in this field?
Yes, from now on he will research more and more we now have a Ph.D., we have two areas available for PhD-to-last January and this is spectacular, is the second specialization with more students here ISPA, after the Clinical Psychology. Henceforth, the search will become more systematized, because people will start to do, in addition to the thesis, even a doctorate.
Even at political level and be our research is much appreciated: we got here, for the first time, that 1% of GDP ... not much, but the first was 0.2% ... 1% only for research: it is extraordinary that a country has a
pay only 1% of GDP for research, scholarships, PhD ...
Very interesting! ... Now, to end, wants to give advice to future community psychology? Then
: study hard in theory, knowing the theoretical ideas of the main founders of Community Psychology (the ecological perspective is essential, a major innovation the ecological perspective, that makes psychology a psychology independent, autonomous thinking ecologically ...) ; aim at the revolutionary transformation, not criticism, not in abstract terms, not surrender to Critical Psychology, but to develop the psychology of change processor (I am a critic of Critical Psychology [laughter] ... maybe because when I was young I was too ' I am a psychologist, critic, criticism and moved to the company ... not today, today I am a scientist first attack all the processing ... in general, not now).
The spirit that I propose to adopt is: "Tell me what's the problem: we do a conference by the way, we design a program and social transformation. In any area ... AIDS in young people, prevention of intimate partner violence o. .. anything!
Very good! Thank you very much for your availability, and for your time, thank you!
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